Arrest Bush, Says Amnesty International
In a shocking development, Amnesty International's executive director, leftist moonbat William Schulz, has suggested that U.S. officials, including President Bush, should be arrested by foreign governments if "a genuinely independent and comprehensive investigation" finds them involved in directing torture. Says Schulz:
''If the U.S. government continues to shirk its responsibility, Amnesty International calls on foreign governments to uphold their obligations under international law by investigating all senior U.S. officials involved in the torture scandal. If those investigations support prosecution, the governments should arrest any official who enters their territory and begin legal proceedings against them. The apparent high-level architects of torture should think twice before planning their next vacation to places like Acapulco or the French Riviera because they may find themselves under arrest as Augusto Pinochet famously did in London in 1998.''A possible proper response from the Bush Administration to Schulz's outrageous suggestions would be for it to call on all governments to investigate Mr. Schulz, since he is an ordained "minister" in the Unitarian Universalist "Church," a far-left outfit whose "churches" serve as meeting places and rallying points for anti-U.S., pro-terror outfits including the International Action Center and International ANSWER.
To call for Mr. Schulz's immediate resignation from Amnesty International, click here.
24 Comments:
well now - that would be an act of war
does self-imagined omnipotent schulz -even aided by leftists worldwide - really think the President of the USA would be taken away -by any group on earth- without an all out war
-does uber fruitbat think that all of USA has lost its balls?
think again - heir schulz
hint: don't rely on any aspect of MSM/acadaemia - they aren't able to ascertain reality - even when not on drugs
go for it fruitcakes-you got
the "awesome" fighting islamofacists on your side - they will bring you victory -even while hiding behind the innocent, children, women,...
world is ready for next all out war
so
let it begin with such a declaration of war - called for by international nutcases
Amnesty International -- Spare me the leftist politics
We call them moonbats and we are correct to do so. The real problem as I see it is the "legitimacy" of the intellectual orientation here. It is very widespread - held by very smart people operating in the real world in positions of respect.
To dismiss it as nutso, to speak of defending against an arrest in military terms, is not helpful. We have to somehow engage and overcome the faulty premises.
There is a crime in there somehow. I suggest that we examine both the tax free status of Amnasty and the possible political misuse of exempt funds. Then if misuse can be demonstrated iform everyone who deducted that they need to pay up or go to jail.
Recommend this piece in National Review Online: Amnesty Unbelievable
Amnesty International has never called for the arrest of Castro, Mao Zedong, Breshnev, Robert Mugabe or even Idi Amin. How about Yasser Afafat, Prince Abdullah and Pol Pot? Anybody seen an AI wanted poster for Putin?
I despise Bush, especially his secrecy and his authoritarianism but you go after mass murderers before you go after petty thieves.
AI's choice of an American president as the target for arrest is fascinating because the US is one country where criminal behavior by rulers can be addressed in the courts. AI chooses to seek "justice" in countries where the citizens cannot, by law, have their grievances against leaders addressed. That is more revealing than they realize. AI obviously seeks to discredit America, not Bush.
>>To dismiss it as nutso, to speak of defending against an arrest in military terms, is not helpful. We have to somehow engage and overcome the faulty premises.<<
"One man can change the world, with a bullet in the right place." - Mike Travis, as played by Malcolm McDowell in If...
Amnesty International is based in America for one reason only, because it is allowed to do so.
AI's choice of an American president as the target for arrest is fascinating because the US is one country where criminal behavior by rulers can be addressed in the courts. AI chooses to seek "justice" in countries where the citizens cannot, by law, have their grievances against leaders addressed.
Exactly right. There's the old saw about looking for your lost keys only where the light is good. AI gets attention and funding from attacking America because ... America responds to them. Unlike what happens when they target a Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro, AI's work against America has an appearance of making something happen in the world. (Come to think of it, in that way all NGOs behave somewhat like terrorist networks.)
The great Natan Sharansky levels scathing condemnations at the name-brand international human rights groups, though naturally less than he does the violent and oppressive tyrants themselves. His point is that loud and clear international advocacy of human rights is a vital tool to be used against despots. Because it emboldens the oppressed within the borders, giving them the strong sense that they are unified with free people outside the borders. Because it tears away the despots' mask of benevolence.
Unable to resist the more immediate gratifications available, the scurrilous AI and its ilk suck oxygen away from the difficult and longer-term, but potentially much more effective human rights advocacies.
Amnesty International hasn't had any cred with me since they ignored Pol Pot's Killing Fields. This most recent laughable action is just the rabid response to their declining power in the world.
The legitimacy angle is something that we'll not be able to overcome until we raze liberalism to the ground. Why? Old media confers legitimacy on radical (front) organizations such as Amnesty International. Unelected bureaucrats send money to their buds in the art-media complex, which finds its way back to such groups. Foundations (McArtur, Pew, Carnagie, Ford) give monies to these groups. Research grants by leftists "scientists" tie into it as well. It's all a self-perpetuating subculture. We can eliminate the funding, but "legitimacy" is a cultural construct, determined mainly by those moralless ladder-climbers who want to rule.
Ok Meyer I'll bite.
Please explain the following oral communication, of what I believe to be a false statement injurious to "W's" reputation.
"I despise Bush, especially his secrecy and his authoritarianism but you go after mass murderers before you go after petty thieves."
EXACTLY WHAT MAKES YOUR SLANDER ANY DIFFERENT FROM AI'S?
russet shadows says:
"This most recent laughable action is just the rabid response to their declining power in the world."
A last shriek before an inveitable demise?
If only that were true.
What I always find interesting about leftist institutions is that they are always the last to know that they are causing their own demise.
Look at the MSM. They would rather blame Bush than simply admit obvious mistakes. The Democratic Party hands the reigns over to Howard Dean while most people see it as an act of suicide.
And the list goes on...
I guess we can be happy about one thing. The left seems to have the adaptive skills of most now-extinct animals.
As it's Memorial Day weekend in USA -and on topic of "torture"/human rights "advocates" - a short true story and I realize 'mr jumpercables, jumperstomper', my 'inferior intellect' is not up to your level (thank G-d), but this was written partly in response to the sorts such as you - and the nut cakes, fruit bats, fools, in "legitimate" positions of influence (G-d help all if they are in power positions)-overwhelming for those who know what service to one's nation is/means - no matter what is demanded . I somewhat appreciate your desire to set the lowly "classes" -such as me-straight and on the path of proper PC thought - but all the same - I decline, in fact I reject altogether your notions of any degree of PC thought/speech controls. And as for "engagement" - there are more ways to engage then via "intellectual discussions" - and you know - be honest - discussions -sometimes- go nowhere - and very slowly - requiring other methods be implemented - think eu/un discussions vis-à-vis n. Korean/Iranian nuclear weapons, or clintonista/un discussions vis-à-vis Rwanda (1995) - lots more - but I'm sure you get the general picture of my opinion for enlightened discussions… and calling for the international community -if only for opportunistic effect- to declare a US President guilty/complicit in "torture" (while head choppers are esteemed as "insurgent heroes") and then to call for the "arrest" - well - that's not a simple little police action, nor an arrest. It is - an act of war and -just guessing but probably a lot of people, like me, would react to such - in same way -by "engaging" with force vice words. If you want to hold such cases as fascist schulz "smart" and worthy of being a person "…in positions of respect". Well, that's your choice. Not mine. I say it's pretty simple. Why give them the respect - smart or not -if such are clearly up to political games -while claiming to be upholding human rights? Lastly - Geneva Convention rights for all US university/college students - held as POWs and force-fed political baloney - by illegitimate radical leftist hyperbolae specialists self-proclaimed professors.
US POW - one of the youngest held as POW during the Viet Nam (democrat's non-war - as democrats can never pull the trigger when it comes to reality decisions) - was non-shooter (declined active participation as shooter, did not even carry a weapon of any kind - nevertheless he did answer call from his nation-unlike neo-canadians, democrat presidents- to serve in time of need (meaning not of the 'privileged' class) ended up in infamous POW compound. He was traveling with a larger group - in route to new camp - and sidetracked by exotic SE Asian wild life, got separated and then lost from main group. Attempting to catch up and taking the wrong path - he ended up meeting with the other side's guys. After initial beatings -which only knocked him unconscious - he was tied up, thrown into a truck in which he regained consciousness and realization of the shit-mess he was in. He couldn't move, couldn't see - as his head was covered -not in women's' frillies, but a filthy and stinky bag - burlap most likely. Anyway - inducted into infamous POW compound - and subjected to daily "torture" including beatings with open hands, fists, rubber hose, tied hands behind back, and suspended from ceiling for hours at a time, but most memorable "torture" session was very special indeed. One morning - US POW -sitting in his 4x6 cell - complete with tin can - not toilet - which was good as the guards were not able to flush the book of worship for his religion of choice - his daily urine/b.m.s took most of the room in the tin can leaving little room for anything else. Oh. That's right. He was not provided with any book of worship during his 3-year stay -even when required by international conventions. Anyway - the special torture session for young US POW -whose crime was getting lost -what a dumb ass- He was dragged out of his cell - most POWs refused to voluntarily walk or be submissive when being lead away to the usual torture sessions - and taken to a room, which wasn't the same as the usual. He noticed right away - the lack of chairs, no ropes hanging from the ceiling, no window -not even the sliver window, and no lights as in the other happy rooms, none of the usual instruments of trade (not even a pair of women's undies!!!). Only one table, 4 walls, the door. The interrogators showed up and began with the usual questions - to which US POW -as usual had no appropriate answers. Surprise of surprises - Instead of punching him in the face, back handing him across his face, or kicking him in the groin - as usual - the interrogators -really good English speakers -no doubt 'well educated' somewhere in france therefore 'legitimate' and 'respected' in their positions- walked out. Guards slammed the door and locked it. US POW was left in the room -in total darkness, confused but relieved, as he was not going to get the usual hours of beatings and -no women's underwear on his head (which he might have secretly enjoyed-unless upstanding moral practitioner of other religion). He didn't know what to do - so he took the few moments - alone - to relax and enjoy - yes - enjoy (people in these situations learn to take life second by second - one second of relative peace - another terror filled - one has to take a break from continual terror - least one loses the mind). Then - he heard the sound of water. Seemed to come from the wall somewhere in the cell. He next felt the water on his bare feet (POW's only allowed flip-flops (not kerry types, but for feet)). Then he realized - he had not been spared the torture. Today he would experience an entirely new type of "torture" (you guessed it -not women's knickers over his head). He figured the situation out - pretty quickly. No windows, the door apparently sealed, the water was beginning to rise in the cell -just very very slowly. He thought about lying down on the table - to take a nap - (one never gets enough sleep in POW hotels - not that they are noisy places - (5-times-day prayers weren't allowed in this place) and talking, whispering, making noises at all were forbidden and met with punishments befitting such "crime" - e.g. beatings, withholding food, water, censored months-old letters, etc. He reasoned that if he fell asleep - the water flow might speed up - he might drown if he couldn't wake up in time. So he stayed awake. Water slowly continued to fill the cell. Hours and hours seemed to go by - he soon lost track of time. Water continued - until it was at the level of the table top - forcing him to kneel and then finally stand. Water continued. He wished he had taken a chance and got some naptime - as he felt he had been in the torture cell for at least 10 hours or so. Water continued -until he could only stand fully upright - to keep his head above the water. It continued - until the cell was full - up to his chin. Now the real "torture" began. How long would he be able to stand - in what was now - complete darkness -and the water wasn't per GC rules - of 78 degrees F (you know -bath water temp). Fatigue began to set in. No sleep in this set-up. All he could do was stand and wait - fight off sleep-keep his mind on something/anything but this situation -real torture- he was in. He only remembers that at one point he began to experience severe hallucinations. Visions of people and things, noises, filled his mind. These seemed to be absolutely real-some added to his misery, some helped to forget a little. These hallucinations may have included his 'benevolent' handlers - who eventually drained the water and retrieved the delusional US POW - finally taking him back to his 'home away from home' for 3 years - the tiny cell - with no book of worship, flushing toittey, prayer rugs, etc. Interestingly - there weren't many willing or able to "engage in discussions" with those "intelligent" folks holding this US POW and others. One he remembers vividly - and with whom he and a few other "lucky criminals" got to meet in person was an American. He and fellows were rounded up one day, given showers, and clean POW pajamas and led to a meeting room in a different part of the POW hotel. Entering into the room, they all noticed the young woman - whom they thought must be there on their behalf. To give them hope. To 'engage' in enlightened discussions on their behalf…?
Not.
'mzzz' fonda actually told these POWs that they deserved what they were getting for their crimes. Can you believe that?! So much for enlightened discussion - "engagement". Amazingly - the MSM "journalists" of those days - didn’t engage in discussion on his behalf either. Like their counterparts of today - they took the side of the POWs' captors.
So my not-so-enlightened opinion is formed in part from above episode - and I therefore say stick AI with its "legitimate" and "respected" management - where moonbat don't fly. Discussion has gone on 35-40 years - its time has passed.
To all who appreciate this holiday - may it be a very good/pleasant one. To the likes of schulz, co-opting this time for your idiotic reasons - I hope you soon find yourselves without a job or and a trip to any other nation of your choice.
Russet Shadows said...
Amnesty International hasn't had any cred with me since they ignored Pol Pot's Killing Fields. This most recent laughable action is just the rabid response to their declining power in the world.
It's obvious to most people that the "declining power" is the United States. This is an clear and predictable result of the loss of credibility that occurs when you invade another country based on lies and misinformation. It's only compounded when you torture people in the name of spreading democracy. The fact that a reputable organization like Amnesty (AI's reputation won't be damanged by the whining of dittoheads and apologists)is openly calling for the President to be tried for war crimes (comparing him to Pinochet, etc.) is symptomatic of this decline in power.
Failure to acknowledge this is an expression of Americans' collective inability to accept responsibility for their leadership.
Yes I wonder where AI was all the time that communists, leftist dictators, and other such murders where killing and torturing wholesale around the world. It speaks volumes to just visit their website and carefully analyze their overall position.
I also agree that AI's words and actions are encouraging the killing of our troops and attacks against our country and citizens around the world by murdering islamic fascist thugs.
The greater pity is that organizations like AI crowd out legitimate human rights groups by sucking up available funds and publicity. There is a crying need for an organization like AI to speak for the uncounted thousands who suffer and die in totalitarian dungeons. God knows the UN will never help them.
Now Carl, let me get this straight!
You want "W" put on trial for war crimes, you want GITMO cleared, you want Saddam freed, and you want the US to pay damages for wrongful death and destruction to all, negatively impacted by the invasion of Iraq?
I asked my wife if there is anything she could recommend to you, as a first baby step back to sanity.
She said, "In severe cases such as yours, it is best, to first see if the poor devil is even capable of following instructions for more complicated heavy medicating." -- THEREFORE, GIVE THIS A TRY, SEE IF YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT, IT'S SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE WITH YOUR I.Q. ???
rightminded:
There is no slander. Bush is secretive (try to file a freedom of information suit about Guantanamo) and authoritarian (he attempted to implement a policy whereby he could imprison, on his orders alone, anyone for as long as he chose).
Even Antonin Scalia couldn't tolerate that power grab and slammed the president in no uncertain terms. Or do you believe that Scalia, too, is a meddling, activist judge?
These are unquestioned facts about Bush. He is secretive and he is authoritarian.
Only blind worshippers of Bush can fail to see his powerlust, his secretive nature and his incompetence.
Only a fool, and or, hate "W" at all costs, can not see the difference between enemy combatants, and American citizens.
I noticed you dodged your "petty thieves" slanderous comment!
I am beginning to realize the callow connection between liberatarians and liberals--MOONBATS THE LOT OF YOU!
Meyer says,
"Even Antonin Scalia couldn't tolerate that power grab and slammed the president in no uncertain terms. Or do you believe that Scalia, too, is a meddling, activist judge?"
Once again, I prove your intellectual fraud with the following!
RASUL v. BUSH:
In a 6-3 decision, the Supreme Court ruled that 600 foreign-born terror suspects captured abroad and held at a Navy-run prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have a right to challenge their detention in U.S. courts.
The ruling overturns a lower court decision holding that the detainees had no right to U.S. hearings because they are foreigners being held in a foreign land. It made no judgment whether their detention violated international laws or was unconstitutional.
"The courts of the United States have traditionally been open to nonresident aliens," Justice John Paul Stevens wrote in the majority opinion. He was joined by Justices Sandra Day O'Connor, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. Justice Anthony Kennedy filed a concurring opinion.
In the dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia decried the majority ruling as improperly extending U.S. court jurisdiction "to the four corners of the earth." Legal precedent dictates otherwise and only Congress can change that, Scalia wrote. He was joined by Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Justice Clarence Thomas.
YOU SIR ARE A LIGHT-WEIGHT!
rightminded:
You quoted the wrong decision on the wrong subject.
The issue wasn't where courts had jurisdiction, the issue was whether the president could, by declaring someone to be an "enemy combatant", keep that individual imprisoned without trial indefinitely.
Scalia, from Rumsfeld v Padilla:
The very core of liberty secured by our Anglo-Saxon system of separated powers has been freedom from indefinite imprisonment at the will of the Executive. Blackstone stated this principle clearly:
“Of great importance to the public is the preservation of this personal liberty: for if once it were left in the power of any, the highest, magistrate to imprison arbitrarily whomever he or his officers thought proper … there would soon be an end of all other rights and immunities. … To bereave a man of life, or by violence to confiscate his estate, without accusation or trial, would be so gross and notorious an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole kingdom. But confinement of the person, by secretly hurrying him to gaol, where his sufferings are unknown or forgotten; is a less public, a less striking, and therefore a more dangerous engine of arbitrary government. …
Furthermore
The Founders well understood the difficult tradeoff between safety and freedom. “Safety from external danger,” Hamilton declared,
“is the most powerful director of national conduct. Even the ardent love of liberty will, after a time, give way to its dictates. The violent destruction of life and property incident to war; the continual effort and alarm attendant on a state of continual danger, will compel nations the most attached to liberty, to resort for repose and security to institutions which have a tendency to destroy their civil and political rights. To be more safe, they, at length, become willing to run the risk of being less free.” The Federalist No. 8, p. 33.
The Founders warned us about the risk, and equipped us with a Constitution designed to deal with it.
Many think it not only inevitable but entirely proper that liberty give way to security in times of national crisis–that, at the extremes of military exigency, inter arma silent leges. Whatever the general merits of the view that war silences law or modulates its voice, that view has no place in the interpretation and application of a Constitution designed precisely to confront war and, in a manner that accords with democratic principles, to accommodate it. Because the Court has proceeded to meet the current emergency in a manner the Constitution does not envision, I respectfully dissent.
emphasis mine.
As usual, you try to prove the wrong thing.
Don't try to play with the big boys, you aren't ready for it. Go home and practice on some grammar school kids, they are more your speed.
I learn something every day.
Today I learn to never underestimate a moonbats ability to twist, spin, and lie through their teeth to meet their ends.
I never even considered that Meyer was bed wetting, and losing sleep with respect to his God given rights, over the Rumsfeld v. Padilla case.
Only a moonbat libertarian, opposed to foreign involvements altogether, would use the legal complexities of an American citizen initially detained as a material witness in the government's investigation of the al Qaeda terrorist network, but later declared an "enemy combatant" by the Department of Defense, to vilify a President trying to fulfill his oath of office.
AS I SAID, YOU MEYER ARE A LIGHT WEIGHT, AND IN YOUR OWN RIGHT, JUST AS DANGEROUS AS THE SONS OF MAHOUND!
P.S. The Founders probably would have shot, or hung Padilla by now!
Also, get your facts straight, Meyer!
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